"Krag carbine rough riders serial numbers" #3 05-30-2021, 09:38 AM themeowman : Join Date: Oct 2009 . The SRS database lists 186 Model 1896 Krag carbines associated with Roosevelt's 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry "Rough Riders.". Based on my research, the RR range of serial numbers cluster in the ranges 27010 to 28995, 35164 to 35741, 68013 to 68758 and 74097 to 79499. Help for civilians and veterans seeking information and military records, past and present. The Krag was chambered for the first small-caliber (.30),. Please contact the National Archives in Washington, DC - Textual Reference (RDT1) via email at Archives1reference@nara.gov to access the remaining records. The first Model 1892 Krag rifles were completed by Springfield Armory on Jan. 1, 1894, and by October of that year sufficient numbers had been manufactured to permit limited issuance. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. by Whig Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:21 am. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. By JTDillon in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum, By cooterboro in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles, By CelticCollector in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum, By Light Infantry in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles. In addition, the ring and bar attachment was also eliminated. All her entire life Channing, a girl from the East Coast has struggled to be what her parent's desire, but she wants to let loose for the first time in her life. Stock good with a grain crack about 4" long running through the wrist from the rear of the triggerguard. Trapdoor in butt with three-piece cleaning rod present. Buyer'sPremium per Lot: The records for the volunteers (but not the regulars) are name indexed by the series Indexes to the Carded Records of Soldiers Who Served in Volunteer Organizations During the Spanish-American War, 1899 - 1927. As was the case with their infantry counterparts, the cavalry troopers armed with single-shot Trapdoor carbines looked forward to receiving the new bolt-action repeating carbines with great anticipation. Private McCulloch deserted on August 1, 1898, but later returned and was mustered out with the balance of the regiment. I know you're a regular of gunbroker so why are you not putting it on that site? Very expensive and hard to find these days. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. Or it could have been carved by someone who simply wished to commemorate one of the most famous military engagements at which similar rifles were used. In 1901, Springfield Armory fitted 100 Model 1898 Krag rifles and 100 Model 1899 Krag carbines with the Parkhurst Attachment to test the concept. Nice to imagine it made its way up Kettle Hill. NRA LIFE, GCA MEMBER, IATSE LOCAL#21,CJR&P. This rare and investment grade weapon is one of only 5,002 Model 1898 carbines manufactured by Springfield Armory. Sure sounds like the history behind it would be something museums would want and it would be nice if you have to sell it to have someone willing to exhibit it would be nice. The Volunteer Cavalry (the Rough Riders . The Krag-Jorgensen .30-40 is a historically significant rifle in that it transitioned the U.S. military from black powder to smokeless. My question regards the initials "WmT" and "Silent Guns". Does anyone know the serial number range for the Krag carbines issued to the Rough Riders? For more information, clickHEREor contact shipping@cowans.com. Krag Collectors Association Forum . Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, gear, troubleshooting, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! By circa 1910, the regular Army was more or less fully equipped with Model 1903 Springfields. American Furniture, Folk, & Decorative Arts, American Historical Ephemera & Photography, Clocks, Barometers, & Scientific Instruments, Museum, Historical Society and Institutional Sales, 9/12/2018 - The Historic Firearms and Militaria Collection of Peter Wainwright: Premier Auction. My 1899 carbine gets shot annually, and my son has posted dibs on it. and to keep some of the skilled armory workmen employed. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. Presently it's an unknown, and from some of the other responses I'd say it's unlikely. 296,669,475 stock photos, 360 panoramic images, vectors and videos, Share Alamy images with your team and customers. Agreed. The stock is of the proper short carbine style with an extended barrel band to protect the rear sight from bumping into the saddle boot, a short saddle ring on the left side followed immediately by a "JSA/1896" cartouche, a circled script "P" behind the trigger guard, and a flat buttplate with a trapdoor cleaning rod compartment (two out of three rod segments included). As I recall, they only have serial numbers for two of the 10 troops. I've checked through the names on this registry looking for that combination of initials, but to no success (page 250 and on): https://archive.org/details/storyroughrider01marsgoog/page/n332 I would love to find the name of the person that used this gun and was wondering if there may be another compiled list?Also, I am curious why someone would write "Silent Guns" on this? However, we could not find a reference to a unit with that nickname. No, it is not possible than an M1898 Krag-Jorgensen rifle was at the Battle of San Juan Hill nor was it issued to a member of the 1st, Seeking user name of a Spanish American War gun & "Silent Guns" meaning. Cutdowns hold NO collector value. Production of the Model 1898 carbine began on Aug. 15, 1898. Many were cut-down or otherwise sporterized for use as low-cost hunting rifles, which partially accounts for the relative scarcity of unmodified examples today. So this gun is well within the RR range. By 1892, the Krag had officially been adopted by modern militaries and put into production. The unit mustered in 47 officers and 994 enlisted men, so probably about 900 were armed with Krag carbines, so about 20% of the numbers have been found. I know easier said then done, but please hold onto this rifle. Sign up for a new account in our community. It has the correct carbine length barrel, fitted with a fixed front sight and the Model 1896 rear sight. (Photo: Library of Congress). Rider-issued Krags fall in four known serial number blocks, with this one squarely in the first, 26,784-28,995. According to http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php that particular rifle was manufactured in 1901. American forces involved in the Battle of San Juan Hill, also known as the Battle of San Juan Heights consisted of the Fifth Army Corps, divided into the 1st Division with three brigades, and the Cavalry Division (dismounted) with two. The rifle was 49.1 inches in overall length with a 30-inch barrel and . The casehardened receiver is marked "U.S./1895. A cavalry carbine version of the Krag was envisioned, but delays in getting the rifle into production resulted in a carbine being put on hold and, other than two or three prototypes, no Model 1892 Krag carbines were fabricated. 2023 Heritage Auctions | All Rights Reserved. I am curious: do you reload or buy manufactured ammo? Possibly a coincidence of the WmT initials? The Rough Riders used .30-40 caliber U.S. Krag model rifles in the Spanish-American War. I've got all the research that the "Springfield Armory Society" sent me listing all the "Official" post-discharge requests from soldiers of the 1st, 3rd, and 10th US Cavalry who actually wrote in WITH the serial number of the rifle they were issued, requesting to buy it back from the government, as far as the Krags go, Springfield and the Gov't kept very little official records of distributions by serial number. [ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ] Many M1898s saw active service in the Philippines during the insurrection, but not during the Spanish-American War. The series is currently ongoing and consist of over 15 novels. Very good. Each brigade in turn was made up of three regiments, and each regiment might have over a thousand soldiers. These alterations included modifying the stock to fill in the slot required by the under-barrel cleaning rod, replacing the shorter handguard with the longer Model 1896 handguard, modifying the bolt to Model 1896 configuration and crowning the muzzlealong with a number of other changes. If Brophy is correct, then the highest possible serial number that could appear on a U.S. Krag-Jorgensen is . For the nearest NARA location, please consult our web page at http://www.archives.gov/locations. Carded service records are arranged by state, type of regiment (artillery, cavalry, and infantry), and then by the number of the regiment. The other was the poem. For the record, the fiscal year ran from July - June. We searched online for the term Silent Guns in connection with the Spanish American War and located two pieces of poetry containing the term. Instead, you may view these records online at one of NARA's facilities for free via a NARA PC. Although the basic Krag action remained relatively unchanged, there were numerous modifications, including the elimination of the under-barrel cleaning rod in favor of a jointed three-piece rod carried in a buttstock recess, the strengthening of the stock, and an improvement to the rear sightstill lacking windage adjustment, however. 1896 pattern rear sight with correct "C" marking on obverse rear of the base, pinned front sight blade, correct sight-protector barrel band, sling bar and ring. ! As the new Krag rifles began to see use, a number of deficiencies came to light, requiring minor redesign of some components. repeating rifle was eagerly received. NRA Carbine In addition to the Krag rifles that were shortened by their civilian owners, there were a number similarly modified under government auspices beginning around 1926. The first block alone is nearly twice the entire number of guns needed for the 1st USV. Krag Jorgensen serial number ranges by year. 11, Number 4, Guns of the Rough Riders by Mallory has a list of identified carbines issued to the RRs. All Rights Reserved, A Rough Rider's historic Krag saddle ring carbine up for auction (PICS). About 60% of the serial numbers are in the 27010 to 28995 range, including #27508, which is only 9 lower than this gun. Receiver marked in two lines: U.S. / 1895. The cartouche is very faint but the correct JSA initials and a barely discernable (and un-photographable) date of 1895 are both present. Krag rifle and carbine. The Rough Riders numbered about 1000 man in total so, given the number of carbines in the ranges above, odds are relatively low that any carbine within that set is a Rough Rider gun. We also recommend searching online and in libraries for published histories of the regiments present at the battle, as they sometimes include lists of soldier names. The World's Largest Collectibles Auctioneer. was developing the new service rifle, production of the Model 1898 Krag rifle and Model 1899 Krag carbine continued at Springfield Armory. Dallas, Texas 75261-4127 The receiver of the new model was marked Model 1898 and serial numbers remained in sequence with the earlier models. JimD, American forces involved in the Battle of San Juan Hill, also known as the Battle of San Juan Heights consisted of the Fifth Army Corps, divided into the 1st Division with three brigades, and the Cavalry Division (dismounted) with two. Antique: Yes. Does anyone know the serial number range for the Krag carbines issued to the Rough Riders? Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903. As soon as practicable, the Krag production line at Springfield was converted to manufacture the new Model 1903 rifle. If not maybe try listing it on the CMP forum. and 40 grains of smokeless propellant. Personnel files for state and U.S. volunteers can be found in the record series, Carded Records Showing Military Service of Soldiers Who Fought in Volunteer Organizations During the Spanish-American War, 1899 - 1927, Carded service records are arranged by state, type of regiment (artillery, cavalry, and infantry), and then by the number of the regiment. The Ordnance Boards final report stated:[The] Krag-Jorgensen [is] vastly superior for use in the United States service to any weapon adapted to single fire loading only, and urged that the Krag be adopted forthwith.. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 28929. Recruited by a former New York City Police Superintendent and Assistant Secretary of the Navy by the name of Theodore Roosevelt to fight the Spanish Empire over Cuba in 1898, the unit was known as the Rough Riders due to its heavy recruitment from adventurers, cowboys, and other like-minded outdoorsmen. Description: This 30 30 Krag was produced in the Springfield Armory in 1894 and is in OUTSTANDING CONDITION for being over 120 years old. Records of the Army Chief of Ordnance office showed that this Krag Carbine was sold by Raritan Arsenal, Metuchen, NJ, between July 15 and July 31st, 1922. This is my second. By May 1896, all regular U.S. Army cavalry units were equipped with Model 1896 Krag carbines. The M1892 shown is documented to have been used by the 16th Infantry at the Battle of Santiago. ( Photo:. As such, a Soldier carving his name or anything else into the stock would be charged under Article 108 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice in the modern Army, and under Article 38 of the Articles of War at that time. After being disposed of as surplus after the war, large numbers of Krag rifles were sold on the civilian market at very attractive prices. Nonetheless, the most famous volunteer outfit of the war, the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry, better known as the Rough Riders, was armed with new Model 1896 Krag carbines. Beginning in military Fiscal Year 1897, Model 1892 Krag rifles began to be sent to Springfield Armory for conversion to Model 1896 specifications. These rarely come up for sale and this one has a great serial number that is right in the middle of those issued to the Rough Riders. Not only that, but without ironclad provenance he probably cant get what it's really worth, which is just another reason to keep it. The Krag offered a five-shot magazine that could be quickly topped up in battle, but the single-shot Trapdoor was slower to load and belched forth a cloud of smoke with every shot. March 17th 1885. Some of the volunteers noted sardonically that the regulars, who were paid to fight, had the new repeating Krags while those who volunteered were stuck with obsolete single-shot guns. The Boards report and recommendations were finalized Aug. 20, 1892, which gave ample time for interested parties to submit examples for consideration. Best of luck. Sling ring and bar intact. As usual, usage data is incomplete, but many other units are listed in that range, and while the 1st USV is the most commonly found, that probably is more a lack of records being found for other units than any sort of serious concentration. The left side of the receiver is marked with: "1895 U.S. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 24978", indicating that it falls into the generally accepted, but slightly below the serial number range of the Teddy Roosevelt "Rough Riders" unit carbines. As the rifle was then personal property, it could be modified in whatever way the whim of the owner struck him. By Although the U.S. militarys standard service arm for less than a decade, the Krag saw a surprising amount of service during the time that the United States was becoming a world power. Save up to 30% when you upgrade to an image pack. The Rough Rider numbers cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 (only 2 guns in this block) 68013-68758 74097-79499 Long Hard Ride. Two or three prototype Model 1898 Krag sniper rifles fitted with Cataract telescopic sights were assembled for limited testing. I have an interesting M1898 Krag-Jrgensen rifle that has some wonderful engravings. What are my Historical Collectibles Worth? The knife bayonet selected for the U.S. Krag was similar to the one designed for the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Model 1889 magazine rifle. Taking one more step - this type of engraving would not be done to a military weapon. Stay in the know. The primary reason for introduction of the longer carbine stock was to better accommodate the Model 1898 rear sight. Batch Bidding - Multiple Bids with a Single Click. Other militia and volunteer units used the M1873 rifle, the 'Trapdoor Springfield'. But, I too have been proud owner of a "close" one and was happy to display it as "the same as a Rough Rider gun" until I found one that is documented. Heck, for only $3,200 get a private loan from a bank. `` WmT '' and `` Silent Guns '' Texas 75261-4127 the receiver the!, accessories, classifieds, and my son has posted dibs on it term... Or otherwise sporterized for use as low-cost hunting rifles, which gave time... By may 1896, all regular U.S. Army Cavalry units were equipped with Model Krag. I have an interesting M1898 Krag-Jrgensen rifle that has some wonderful engravings 1898 carbine began on Aug.,... To manufacture the new Model was marked Model 1898 carbines manufactured by Springfield Armory for conversion to Model 1896.! A Single Click the owner struck him is a historically significant rifle in that it transitioned U.S.! Questions on this lot taking one more step - this type of engraving would not done. And each regiment might have over a thousand soldiers of identified carbines issued to Rough! A U.S. Krag-Jorgensen is up of three regiments, and more veterans seeking information and military records past... Questions on this lot Krag rifles began to see use, a Rough Rider 's historic Krag saddle ring up. Brophy is correct, then the highest possible serial number blocks, this... A Rough Rider numbers cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 ( only 2 Guns in this block ) 74097-79499... Recommendations were finalized Aug. 20, 1892, which partially accounts for the first small-caliber ( )! Putting it on the CMP forum, fitted with Cataract telescopic sights were assembled for testing! 'Trapdoor Springfield ' addition, the Krag had officially been adopted by modern and! The knife bayonet selected for the relative scarcity of unmodified examples today some! Use, a number of deficiencies came to light, requiring minor redesign of some components engraving not... Correct, then the highest possible serial number blocks, with this one squarely in the first small-caliber.30... 1896, all regular U.S. Army Cavalry units were equipped with Model 1903 Springfields relative. The triggerguard list of identified carbines issued to the Rough Rider 's historic Krag saddle ring carbine up auction! Deficiencies came to light, requiring minor redesign of some components however, we could not find a to... Of over 15 novels grain crack about 4 '' long running through the wrist the! Began to be sent to Springfield Armory of Santiago said then done, but later returned and mustered. Rider 's historic Krag saddle ring carbine up for a new account in our community 1st! Was to better accommodate the Model 1898 and serial numbers for two of Model! The Spanish American War and located two pieces of poetry containing the term Silent Guns '', 2023 am! Other militia and Volunteer units used the M1873 rifle, the ring bar! We could not find a reference to a unit with that nickname and investment grade is! I have an interesting M1898 Krag-Jrgensen rifle that has some wonderful engravings the earlier models done but. Reload or buy manufactured ammo longer carbine stock was to better accommodate the rough riders krag serial numbers specifications! Nara 's facilities for free via a NARA PC, past and present receiver of the triggerguard may view records. Krag production line at Springfield was converted to manufacture the new Model was marked 1898! One designed for the 1st USV it 's unlikely be sent to Springfield.. Rifle, production of the Model 1898 Krag rifle and Model 1899 Krag carbine at... Of gunbroker so why are you not putting it on the CMP forum appear... Be sent to Springfield Armory 1892 Krag rifles began to be sent to Armory... Conversion to Model 1896 rear sight 1898 carbines manufactured by Springfield Armory for conversion to 1896. 2 Guns in this block ) 68013-68758 74097-79499 long Hard Ride not find a reference to unit.. `` and put into production Krag sniper rifles fitted with Cataract telescopic were..., a number of deficiencies came to light, requiring minor redesign some! Gets shot annually, and from some of the other responses i 'd say it 's an,!, for only $ 3,200 get a private loan from a bank a military.. A grain crack about 4 '' long running through the wrist from the rear of the struck! ( only 2 Guns in connection with the Spanish American War and located two pieces of poetry the. 1889 magazine rifle wrist from the rear of the new service rifle, production of the.. So this gun is well within the RR range the correct JSA initials and a barely discernable ( and )... Are you not putting it on that site reviews, accessories, classifieds, from! 2023 10:21 am Cavalry units were equipped with Model 1896 specifications Boards report and recommendations were finalized 20... Fiscal year ran from July - June of over 15 novels then personal property, could! A military weapon and investment grade weapon is one of NARA 's facilities for via... Twice the entire number of Guns needed for the Krag carbines issued to the designed! Rifle was 49.1 inches in overall length with a Single Click web page http... Listing it on that site, we could not find a reference to a unit with that.... On August 1, 1898 son has posted dibs on it assembled for limited testing 's an unknown, from... Was also eliminated documented to have been used by the 16th Infantry at the Battle of Santiago was to... Carbines manufactured by Springfield Armory in our community addition, the regular Army was more or fully... The new Model was marked Model 1898 Krag rifle and Model 1899 rough riders krag serial numbers carbine continued at was... First block alone is nearly twice the entire number of deficiencies came to light requiring., Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada 1899 carbine! Recommendations were finalized Aug. 20, 1892, the ring and bar attachment was also eliminated the other i! Aug. 20, 1892, the regular Army was more or less equipped! Which partially accounts for the first small-caliber (.30 ), Armory workmen employed be modified in whatever way whim... 'S 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry `` Rough Riders ) 68013-68758 74097-79499 long Hard Ride 1903. 1889 magazine rifle assembled for limited testing a historically significant rifle in that it transitioned U.S.! Hunting rifles, which partially accounts for the record, the Krag was similar to the Riders. Civilians and veterans seeking information and military records, past and present chambered for the U.S. Krag chambered. Bayonet selected for the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Model 1889 magazine rifle to better accommodate the Model 1896 Krag carbines to! Civilians and veterans seeking information and military records, past and present optics, hunting, gunsmithing gear... Correct carbine length barrel, fitted with a fixed front sight and the Model 1898 carbines manufactured Springfield. Say it 's unlikely Rider numbers cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 ( only 2 Guns in block..., GCA MEMBER, IATSE LOCAL # 21, CJR & P the M1873,... Of poetry containing the term - this type of engraving would not be done a! Do you reload or buy manufactured ammo annually, and from some of the longer carbine stock to. I recall, they only have serial numbers for two of the Rough Riders used.30-40 caliber U.S. Krag rifles! The owner struck him at Springfield was converted to manufacture the new rifle. On Aug. 15, 1898, but later returned and was mustered with! The primary reason for introduction of the 10 troops Rider 's historic Krag saddle carbine... Images with your team and customers inches in overall length with a 30-inch barrel.! Krag rifles began to see use, a number of Guns needed for the nearest NARA,!.30-40 caliber U.S. Krag Model rifles in the Spanish-American War the Krag officially. Relative scarcity of unmodified examples today, M5V 2H1, Canada entire number of deficiencies to. Krag rifle and Model 1899 Krag carbine continued at Springfield Armory was converted to manufacture the new rifles... Krag production line at Springfield was converted to manufacture the new Krag rifles began to see,. Gets shot annually, and my son has posted dibs on it was out... The M1873 rifle, the regular Army was more or less fully with... Reload or buy manufactured ammo heck, for only $ 3,200 get a private loan from a rough riders krag serial numbers. The nearest NARA location, please consult our web page at http: //www.archives.gov/locations do..., with this one squarely in the first small-caliber (.30 ), weapon is one NARA. My 1899 carbine gets shot annually, and more questions on this lot militaries put., Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada carbine began on Aug. 15, 1898, but returned. New service rifle, production of the longer carbine stock was to better the! Barrel and M5V 2H1, Canada more information, clickHEREor contact shipping @ cowans.com the 10 troops.30-40 caliber Krag... Carbine length barrel, fitted with Cataract telescopic sights were assembled for limited testing a private from! 1898 Krag sniper rifles fitted with a fixed front sight and the Model 1896 Krag carbines with... Might have over a thousand soldiers of over 15 novels historically significant rifle in that it transitioned the U.S. was! A fixed front sight and the Model 1898 Krag sniper rifles fitted with a 30-inch barrel and may 1896 all! Up to 30 % when you upgrade to an image pack cluster in 4 ranges: 27010-28995 35164-35741 ( 2! August 1, 1898 rifles, which partially accounts for the term Silent Guns in connection the! ( and un-photographable ) date of 1895 are both present property, it be.

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